Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

*IF* you want to share your opinion on the GPL issue, this is the place for you.
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Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:17 am

Really,

Everyone can post a topic, but only joomla "staff" can reply. One can reply to his/her own post but nobody else can. At the same time all people who have a title according to this forum (joomla devs, joomla admins, etc.) can just start their Joomla propaganda and talk to eachother mindlessly.

Oh my god, are people really that blind.

(edit: added gpl to topicline)
Last edited by Trijnie on Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please stop making threads all about Joomla supporters.

Post by Jenny » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:30 am

This method of communication was created because the "discussions" (in the original GPL threads) were so non-constructive that they took incredible amounts of moderator time to remove all the personal attacks, propaganda, etc.

Our goal is to eliminate most, if not all, of the personal attacks, propaganda, name calling, finger pointing, etc. and hopefully help the community to sort through all of the posts, ideas, opinions, facts, questions, answers, speculation, etc.

The moderators thank you in advance for your cooperation and support in maintaining a measure of dignity and decorum on our forum and please remember that the forum rules still apply.
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Reply to: Please Stop

Post by Rogue4ngel » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:17 am

Actually, people can respond to your post that are not on the team.  It's a bit convoluted way to do it, but it keeps the personal attacks / misinformation and thread derailment down to a minimum.

So it's not some sort of propaganda.  It's dealing with a situation the best it can be dealt with.
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Re: Please stop making threads all about Joomla supporters.

Post by infograf768 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:33 am

Dear Trijnie,

please do not insult your own intelligence (and mine...  ;) . Yep, I guess I kept some although, with age.. hehe)
I am sure you were aware of the reasons behind this temporary —be sure it is— way of handling these GPL matters.

As Jennifer stated above, it became plain just impossible to cope with the moderating needs —usual Forum rules— implied by the rush into permanent ranting and FUD from some members of the forum. Mostly newcomers I have to say. But also a few others, alas. :'(

I do not see this as a normal situation but humanly we could not spend 24/24 of our time editing name calls, preventing bump, etc.
Please do me the favour of believing me when I state that I can't wait for the "normal" rules of these forums to be applied to all matters again.

You certainly will agree that I can't be considered as a follower with no principles. I have demonstrated this enough while collaborating to this project, which we founded together. I also have been always pointing some to the essential Communitarian aspects of this project. "jumla" for me did not only concern Core but all of us here and in the foreign language communities. 

I have to admit —but this is easy to me as I usually don't hide much of my thoughts, as you know well, at least in private  ;) — that it was not without hesitation that I have accepted this temporary twist proposed by our Forum Admins.
But I did, and the results have proven worth doing it, even if we (I insist on the "we" here, you have my word on it) do not feel at ease imposing this to all who behave correctly, whatever their opinion on this hot GPL matter. It is sad indeed we had to do that, but the Community at large is more important than any of its part taken separately IMO.

The community(ies) and GPL are the reasons why I joined this project in the first place. I have not changed a bit on this.
And "propaganda" is not my glass of wine (sorry, drink no tea.  ;) ).

I will certainly be considered as an "ideologue" by some. I am obviously one. No one can volunteer so long with no monetary profit in mind IMO. The profit for me lies elsewhere, in helping providing this excellent piece of software to as many people in the whole world as possible. And the reason why I decided to do that is, as you know, to help develop freedom of expression & independance from the powers-that-be for every individual or group, whatever their own motivations. Yes, even for those that fight against these basic principles of freedom of thought, expression and choice which I consider basic rights for all human beings.

I had not expressed publically my opinion on these subjects before. Well, it is now done.
Thanks for your post which gave me this opportunity.  :)
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Re: Please stop making threads all about Joomla supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:12 am

Hello JM,

please do not insult your own intelligence (and mine...  . Yep, I guess I kept some although, with age.. hehe)
Don't worry, I'm not insulting my own intelligence, nor yours ;).
I am sure you were aware of the reasons behind this temporary —be sure it is— way of handling these GPL matters.
No, I'm not aware of the reasons behind these GPL matters. So, handling these GPL matters in this way is temporary? The decision made to enforce the GPL also? If not, it probably will take a while before they get back to normal.
As Jennifer stated above, it became plain just impossible to cope with the moderating needs —usual Forum rules— implied by the rush into permanent ranting and FUD from some members of the forum. Mostly newcomers I have to say. But also a few others, alas.
That is not the point. We "the no forum title" members of the community just have to sit and watch people "with some forum title" and very much pro the new gpl enforcement, post messages. Hence my pointers towards propaganda ;).
You certainly will agree that I can't be considered as a follower with no principles. I have demonstrated this enough while collaborating to this project, which we founded together. I also have been always pointing some to the essential Communitarian aspects of this project. "jumla" for me did not only concern Core but all of us here and in the foreign language communities.

I have to admit —but this is easy to me as I usually don't hide much of my thoughts, as you know well, at least in private  — that it was not without hesitation that I have accepted this temporary twist proposed by our Forum Admins.
But I did, and the results have proven worth doing it, even if we (I insist on the "we" here, you have my word on it) do not feel at ease imposing this to all who behave correctly, whatever their opinion on this hot GPL matter. It is sad indeed we had to do that, but the Community at large is more important than any of its part taken separately IMO.

The community(ies) and GPL are the reasons why I joined this project in the first place. I have not changed a bit on this.
And "propaganda" is not my glass of wine (sorry, drink no tea.  ).
Although we did meet in Londen, I do not "know" you as I do not life in your head, and therefor don't know your idealistic or political thoughts. In my life experience  I came across people who say one thing, but thought (and acted) the opposite.
I will certainly be considered as an "ideologue" by some. I am obviously one. No one can volunteer so long with no monetary profit in mind IMO. The profit for me lies elsewhere, in helping providing this excellent piece of software to as many people in the whole world as possible. And the reason why I decided to do that is, as you know, to help develop freedom of expression & independance from the powers-that-be for every individual or group, whatever their own motivations. Yes, even for those that fight against these basic principles of freedom of thought, expression and choice which I consider basic rights for all human beings.
There are a lot of people on this earth who volunteer with no monetary profit in mind, including myself. If you would ask me, I think this forum is totally filled with "those kind of folks". There are lots of other reasons for volunteering besides monetary profit or idealism (honor,power,etc.). Also, being payed for something does not mean one cannot be an idealist.
I had not expressed publically my opinion on these subjects before. Well, it is now done.
Thanks for your post which gave me this opportunity. 
As far as I know you are allowed to post anywhere you want and whatever you want. You do not need an opportunity, but your welcome anyway. ;)

In case you were not aware: discussions that are censored are taken elsewere, for instance here: http://jcd-a.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by infograf768 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:24 pm

I am not aware of any censored discussion here.
Just the modalities of discussion on this matter for the reasons explained above are temporary different from usual.
Anybody can post –polite– posts and even reply to other posts on the GPL matters.
We move posts accordingly.

Heavy work for moderators, yes, censored, nope.

I am aware of the forums you recently joined and enjoy reading them —with mixed feelings  :pop.
And you are so much censored that your posts here and in the Dutch forum calling to join posting url to [Edited by me at Trijnie's request] one of the said forums are still present...  ;)
Last edited by infograf768 on Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Wendy » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:30 pm

Moving this thread to the Opinion board as it is not Developer related. 
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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:12 pm

infograf768 wrote: I am not aware of any censored discussion here.
Just the modalities of discussion on this matter for the reasons explained above are temporary different from usual.
Anybody can post –polite– posts and even reply to other posts on the GPL matters.
We move posts accordingly.

Heavy work for moderators, yes, censored, nope.

I am aware of the forums you recently joined and enjoy reading them —with mixed feelings  :pop.
And you are so much censored that your posts here and in the Dutch forum calling to join one of the said forums are still present...  ;)
Hello JM,

I cannot post to threads made by others on GPL matters, in the GPL forums (child forums in "The Lounge"). I have heard this remark before  from other moderators however, the reply button is "really"  missing for me. Perhaps other people interrested in this subject could confirm this by submitting a new thread in this little corner?

If reading the other forums filled you with mixed feelings, then it's a good thing you have not requested to join.

Talking about joining, I have not called anyone in the Dutch forums to do so, I was merely giving an answer and illustration to a question. Could you please quote my calling for others to join, or else rectify your post in this thread?

Thanks in advance,

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by infograf768 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:30 pm

Trijnie,

the system is very simple:
If you want to reply to a thread in these locked boards, just start a new thread in the same board with a ref to the post concerned.
Mods will move it there. http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg873843

Concerning your post in the Dutch forums, I may have interpreted the link in it as a way to call to join that forum as you just did, which I do not question at all. I considered this new membership and immediate link to it as a result of your enthousiasm
My Dutch is not very good I must say —and never was btw  :laugh:  Forgive me for this interpretation if it was wrong.

PS: I am a member of that forum btw. As of many others...
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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:56 pm

Hi Jm,
infograf768 wrote: the system is very simple:
If you want to reply to a thread in these locked boards, just start a new thread in the same board with a ref to the post concerned.
Mods will move it there. http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg873843
I know this however, it gives the community a false impression.
infograf768 wrote: Concerning your post in the Dutch forums, I may have interpreted the link in it as a way to call to join that forum as you just did, which I do not question at all. I considered this new membership and immediate link to it as a result of your enthousiasm
There is no doubt at all that you have interpretted the link as you say, as your statement makes that a fact. I have linked to this forum before I registered as a member on other occasions.
infograf768 wrote: My Dutch is not very good I must say —and never was btw  :laugh:  Forgive me for this interpretation if it was wrong.
I rather have you either confirming your statement as a fact, or rectifying it. Forgiveness is something I only give to people who learned from their mistakes.
infograf768 wrote: PS: I am a member of that forum btw. As of many others...
Yes, but you have not requested to join. Many others know the benefit of that ....

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Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters. HUH?

Post by tjay » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:45 pm

We are not supposed to post threads that are supportive of our position and opinion?
Folks do and will have an opinion on this issue.
I think you may be seeing the beginning of a back lash movement towards those who have made a very simple GPL position into an unnecessarily ugly issue.

I have read just about every angle on this topic with an open mind. And I have determined that users of Joomla should support the decision and have a voice in this discussion. Now you are suggesting that people cannot voice that opinion??????

Personally I would like to see the users of Joomla not only support the decision, but start letting the commercial developers know how they feel. Enough already. You have a choice, continue to develop for Joomla as GPL or move along. Do one or the other but stop the ranting about it.
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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:29 am

Wow, let me say that I'm very hurt by your remarks Tjay.

I have read your statements about how you read all about the recent gpl issues, and also read about how you feel as a user, but I would NEVER attack you. I do respect your point of view, please also respect other point of views.

I have seen a lot of posts of you in the past and found them to be very intelligent and caring. That's what  is upsetting me, without any doubt.

As for moving on, I have. If you had clicked my sig link, you would have known.

I'm not ranting, just stating what you obviously missed.

Extra blessings for you,

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Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:33 am

Hi Tjay,

Just curious:

Why are you able to comment on my posts, when I'm not able to comment on yours?

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Re: Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:39 am

Pardon me. The reason for my question: I thought "Good old Tjay, he is a community member without ranking, just like me".

However, other "just" community members can't reply either. So, hence my question?

Last edited by Trijnie on Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view

Post by brad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:58 am

Merging to correct thread.

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by brad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:00 am

Trijnie,

Feel free to reply to your own thread, you have always been able to. When people respond to your posts, we (moderators) merge them into the one original thread.

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Please stop making threads

Post by tjay » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:03 am

I have sent you an email, Your in-box here is full
We have shared many of the same views over the past years.
I just happen to think the way this is being handled by Some folks is very poor.
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Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:06 am

Thanks for your heads-up. I have not used the pm  system on this forum for a long time.  Some messages have been deleted, feel free to mail.

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:14 am

Hi Brad ;),

I'm aware of the fact that I can reply to my own threads. But thank you for telling me anyway.

Blessings,

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Re: Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view

Post by brad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:14 am

Trijnie,

PLEASE READ my last messages, PLEASE reply to the thread you started, you can, and always have been able to. I will merge this one again.

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:18 am

Please explain yourself Brad, because your posts don't make any sense?

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by brad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:20 am

You keep posting new messages rather than replying to this one, and the moderators have to keep merging them.

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:22 am

No Brad,

The post with the topicline "The GPL from a user point of view" should go to Tjay his thread.

Regards,

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by brad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:25 am

I give up.. we're happy to work with you, but you have to make it apparent what exactly you want merged.

FYI You are the only person who has been unable to convey this to the moderators...

Sorry.. if you want something moved, or posted in some other thread, please explain using links etc..

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:33 am

Sorry, this is still not making any sense. You can put my post where ever you want. It's all good with me.  :)

If I reply to (for instance tjay: The GPL from a user point of view) I will give the subject following name:
Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view.

But perhaps you are right and I'm totally doing this the wrong way. Should it have been "Re: The GPL from a user point of view" in order to make you understand?

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by brad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:37 am

Trijnie wrote: Sorry, this is still not making any sense. You can put my post where ever you want. It's all good with me.  :)

If I reply to (for instance tjay: The GPL from a user point of view) I will give the subject following name:
Tjay: The GPL from a user point of view.

But perhaps you are right and I'm totally doing this the wrong way. Should it have been "Re: The GPL from a user point of view" in order to make you understand?
Well, take a look at what everyone else does.. they LINK to the post they want to reply to. If you do that, it will make it far easier.

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Re: Please stop making threads that are all about Joomla GPL supporters.

Post by Trijnie » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:40 am

Right. Sure Brad, wil do.


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