Table-less Joomla - Any News

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sam1970
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Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by sam1970 » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:42 pm

Hi,

Is Table-less site design a hopeless case with Joomla/Mambo? I mean not just the Index.php, rather the whole thing.

Some claims that they have table less sites, thinking by removing them from the index.php (Template) they are free form it, looking at the source code, the site is infested with tables not to mention most 3d add on use tables in their design

I have noticed that Joomla web site takes about 64.4 sec. to load on 56k modem, while CNET news.com takes about 37.3 sec. Do not know if that’s because they do not use tables on the site or something else. I can’t think of anything else as they have external links, flash, advertisements, banners, or simple they are running on a super out of this earth server ???

Sam

rjs

Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by rjs » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:49 pm

You can design a completely tableless template. I've done a couple. But Joomla! core will still output tables.

"I have noticed that Joomla web site takes about 64.4 sec. to load on 56k modem, while CNET news.com takes about 37.3 sec. Do not know if that’s because they do not use tables on the site or something else. I can’t think of anything else as they have external links, flash, advertisements, banners, or simple they are running on a super out of this earth server"

Could simply be the difference in routing and the amount of hops from your destination. It could be dns, it could be...
There are many factors as to why one site flys when you access it and another takes a bit longer.
Last edited by rjs on Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by sam1970 » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:57 pm

rjs wrote: You can design a completely tableless template. I've done a couple. But Joomla! core will still output tables.
So Joomla will not change it's core to output divs in the future? If not, what would be the reasons?

Thank you

Sam

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by tstn » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:36 pm

I think I read somewhere that it is on the core teams agenda to move xhtml and css for layout entirely.
Which means that it should move away from tables to create a layout (you know table in table in table).
However this does not mean that tables be banned entirely. Use of tables can have some benefits from time to time.
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by Tonie » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:10 am

The default design of Joomla will be tableless in future, but that won't be with the up and coming Joomla 1.1 yet. Joomla 1.1 will focus and languages and authentication. If you take a look at the roadmap, there is 'Foundational Useability and Accessibility work' to be found in Joomla 1.2.

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by kenmcd » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:10 am

Accessible Joomla purports to be tableless. Last update was for J! 1.0.2.
Other "tableless" designs still have the one content table - don't know if that is the case here.

Accessible Joomla
Accessible (a8e) Joomla is a Joomla fork that conforms to accessibility guidelines and standards (e.g. W3C ). Table layout is removed, also popup and javascript have been converted to accessible code. A8e Joomla! will follow regular Joomla releases. We hope to make the project obsolete ASAP when all patches will be included in the standard Joomla releases.
Home  JoomlaForge  Download  BugTracker  Documentation  FAQ  SupportForum  Tutorial  Screenshots 
Demos: Demo sites needed - Please post links in Discussion thread. 

Also see:
Accessibility Hacks for Joomla
Some major and minor hacks for developing accessible and usable websites with Joomla.
Home  JoomlaForge  Download  BugTracker  Documentation  FAQ  SupportForum  Tutorial  Screenshots 
Demos: Demo sites needed - Please post links in Discussion thread. 
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by compass » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:25 pm

It is possible to trim down Joomla to just a couple of tables. Check my livesite project below...
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by sam1970 » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:10 am

I'm loosing my hair over the module tables, if any still exists... :o Not good at all

So much to play with to get it free form tables, one thing I really found very annoying is the moduletable class

Oh well, I guess leave it the way it is and go on..I'm about to get divorced over this  :laugh:

Thanks for the info  :-*

Sam

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by compass » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:31 pm

You can get rid of the module table by using a -2 or -3 suffix...

http://help.joomla.org/content/view/33/125/
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by sam1970 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:33 am

compass wrote: You can get rid of the module table by using a -2 or -3 suffix...

http://help.joomla.org/content/view/33/125/
@compass
Can you please clear it more!! I went over the link but could not make any of off it.
You just plug in -2 in the module suffix and you are free from module tables, or I have to do something with the index.php?

Sorry if I did not get what the link recommended to do

Thank you

Sam

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by absalom » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:42 am

-2 and -3 will drop the tables out of the modules you publish (as best as it can). It's not a module suffix, it's a switch on the module loading call every time you reference a module area inside a template.

You then have to modify the following ouput areas of the core:
  • content
  • menus
  • weblinks
For an added layer of complexity, 3PD componentry, modules and templates also have to be brought into line in terms of tableless output.

It's been done before.
Last edited by absalom on Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by sam1970 » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:06 am

absalom wrote: -2 and -3 will drop the tables out of the modules you publish (as best as it can). It's not a module suffix, it's a switch on the module loading call every time you reference a module area inside a template.

You then have to modify the following ouput areas of the core:
  • content
  • menus
  • weblinks
For an added layer of complexity, 3PD componentry, modules and templates also have to be brought into line in terms of tableless output.

It's been done before.
:o

Oh My....So it's not as simple as I thought...Maybe a bit more Info needed to do that. If any have any time for it, that would be great

Thank you

Sam

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by compass » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:49 am

Well, if you just put in a -2 suffix, you can easily get down to about 1-2 tables for the whole page
You then have to modify the following ouput areas of the core:

    * content
    * menus
    * weblinks
Yes, he is right, but I tend to use CSS based menus anyway and ditch the one with Joomla. The last table holds the main content
Last edited by compass on Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by liaquest » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:09 pm

Compass... I feel like an idiot but I still don't understand. I added -2 as my module class suffix and it adds it to the class, no change in the tables used as their container. Am I doing this correctly? Can you guide me in the right direction?

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by compass » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:21 pm

Well, lets see, you have to make the change in the index.php file...

If you add this:

Code: Select all

<?php mosLoadModules('top',-2);?>
It will output all modules in that location as this:

Code: Select all

<div class="moduletable">
blah blah blah
</div>
If you don't use a suffix, it will put modules in a table.

You still can't get rid of the table for the main content as it won't accept this kind of suffix. You have to hack the core to do this.

Hope that helps
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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by liaquest » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:27 pm

Thank you so much! For some reason I thought that you meant a module suffix in the Admin interface. This is wonderful. I am off to change it immediately... Sorry I was so dense. I don't know where my brains are these days.


Now to find a way to remove that main table. It makes me crazy! I don't mind hacking the core but I don't know which files the main table is called from... Can I ask if anyone knows which file it is?

Thank you very much.

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by liaquest » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:36 pm

Ah... I think I see... the component com_content? I am sorry, I am so new to Joomla and I was looking for an include.

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Re: Table-less Joomla - Any News

Post by sam1970 » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:07 pm

liaquest wrote: Ah... I think I see... the component com_content? I am sorry, I am so new to Joomla and I was looking for an include.
Look into includes/front page html file you can edit all the tables and change to td to divs, just give a div in your css a class, like font size and what ever you want...

once you are done, all modules tables will be gone....also, try to cgange th to to span or h3

once you are done with modules, then long live content.html.php and content.php

Sam


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