About the design of the administration?

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Lodder » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:47 pm

@Chacapamac why don't you submit a PR?

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:56 pm

I already try to submit the ideas in Github and it seem to have been forgotten. I even contact the Team leader of the administrator template and it went nowhere.

This is for that I start that post.

Anyway, I’m not a coder, I know I can do the modification myself relatively easily. Only the placement of the action button will be probably required a small change in the structural code, the rest is simple CSS.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by darb » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:21 am

So where is the coordination and resposibility of the admin template design working group? Is there not a admin design work group leader that can step in and discuss and manage the situation here?

Isnt that why Joomla have created this structured way of working?

Where is the Joomla admin template leadership? hello ?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Hackwar » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:56 am

darb wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:21 am
So where is the coordination and resposibility of the admin template design working group? Is there not a admin design work group leader that can step in and discuss and manage the situation here?

Isnt that why Joomla have created this structured way of working?

Where is the Joomla admin template leadership? hello ?
The backend template team was a temporary structure, which has been disbanded when the PR was merged. What are you expecting to be announced here, which hasn't been announced?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:43 pm

Hackwar
What are you expecting to be announced here, which hasn't been announced?
Great, can you tell us what will be done to fix the administrative template and was announced here? :D

I ask because I don’t recall seeing anything clear about any plan to modify the faulty design? :eek:
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by GarageGear » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:25 pm

Imho the design of the admin template is too confusing to the average user. It even confuses me. I was only able to find the obvious stuff because I already know Joomla!.

[ redacted ]
Last edited by toivo on Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: manual signature removed, please read the forum rules!

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by darb » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:30 am

GarageGear wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:25 pm
Imho the design of the admin template is too confusing to the average user. It even confuses me. I was only able to find the obvious stuff because I already know Joomla!.

[ redacted ]
How can you know Joomla if this is your first post. Toivo remove this post bcs it was is spam as you already have removed his manual link. And remove this post too. Thks.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Lodder » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:57 am

darb wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:30 am
How can you know Joomla if this is your first post.
Really? If post count is associated with ones knowledge of Joomla, then I clearly have f*** all clue about the CMS

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by simbus82 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:30 am

darb wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:30 am
GarageGear wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:25 pm
Imho the design of the admin template is too confusing to the average user. It even confuses me. I was only able to find the obvious stuff because I already know Joomla!.

[ redacted ]
How can you know Joomla if this is your first post. Toivo remove this post bcs it was is spam as you already have removed his manual link. And remove this post too. Thks.
IMHO

Never judge someone by the number of posts. Since, typically, those who know how to do things and not have much time to help others, they don't write posts in the forums.

I have writed only 66 posts, and i have joined the forum in 2007.
Maybe i know Joomla better than 99% of users in this forum. Maybe.
I use Joomla since 2005, and i have started with Mambo.

Are 66 posts a signal of my ~ 400 websites developed with Joomla (as a freelance and in team with our web agency)?
I speak of B2C and B2B websites with custom templates and custom extensions for customer which have revenue over some million €... but i have only 66 posts! :-[

(And that's why I allow myself to judge on how bad is the new J4 backend templayte, just because I know what it mean working, and not playing as a hobby, with a cms.)

Please!

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by darb » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:35 am

Lodder wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:57 am
darb wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:30 am
How can you know Joomla if this is your first post.
Really? If post count is associated with ones knowledge of Joomla, then I clearly have f*** all clue about the CMS
Calm down its not about post count and knowledge of Joomla.

Its just very common that spammers like GarageGear come and do one post that is very irrelevant to the topics and post a few more to make their own prs links later. So for me the user memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=853362 behave like this and Toivo already removed his spam link but kept his post. I just want to remove this too bcs its against the rules to post links like that and especially irrelevant links to the topic in your first post!

Hope thats clarifies what the situation is Lodder? Updated: and simbus82
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by simbus82 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:19 pm

Some updates about the great work that @kawshar is doing with his team.

This is a real UX and great Web Design example.
I can say only... WOW! :eek:

This is what is expected in the 2019!

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:31 pm

https://www.[[youtube]].com/watch?v=5W682F_Oj90 - video for the content and editor views, thanks to Cyrille Poussin
simbus82 — This video link is not working ?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by AMurray » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:32 am

Remove the square brackets around "you tube". (the brackets are added by this forum).
The video does play when you fix the URL - select/copy/paste to your browser, then remove the brackets.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Thanks AMurray, just watch the video.

The mechanic is ok, but again a washout overall design with no clear demarcation between menu and content.
Worst, No quick icons to important tools hidden in the menus in the dashboard.

Saddly not the right direction !
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by simbus82 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:23 am

Chacapamac wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:44 pm
Thanks AMurray, just watch the video.

The mechanic is ok, but again a washout overall design with no clear demarcation between menu and content.
Worst, No quick icons to important tools hidden in the menus in the dashboard.

Saddly not the right direction !
IMHO, i think you are wrong.

This is the only right road to have a "sellable" Joomla 4, not with UI and UX made of border and blocks that came from 2010 design principles.

Fresh and light is needed today, see some great Design models like Material Design, Modern UI, Polaris, etc.
Stop thinking Joomla is for over40 developers, we need new and young users.
We need to give to new users a modern UI, like the ones they are used to using daily: mobile apps, new devices, ... the trend must be embraced!

See this news!
https://www.facebook.com/jkawshar/video ... 418685619/

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by gws » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:09 am

I think @kawshar and their team should be congratulated for at least doing something,not just talking about it.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:45 pm

I install the last Alpha version, not what I see in the video?

Somebody have a link to download that version with that last administration template?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Forget about my last post (to download that version seen in that video proposed by @kawshar)

I didn’t realized that it was that “Reinvent the wheel” proposition that is a good idea in itself but have nothing to do with the official administration template that users will find in their Joomla 4 installation.

I really like to keep the focus of this post on the OFFICIAL JOOMLA 4 administrative template ONLY.

Creating third party alternatives are always welcome and source of ideas but let’s focus on what we can do to help for the onboard administrative template that will be given by JOOMLA.

We got some really good alternatives already but what will decide of Joomla 4 success, it’s the genuine Joomla administration that the CMS will be given at it’s launch, nothing else...
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:10 pm

Hi guys, thanks very much for the support. I really admire you guys who are willing to see some positive changes. Well, the team has been very busy along with me to complete the project on time. I would like to inform you guys that we are almost there. We are planning to create an installable package by Wednesday/Thursday. And, then we will upload the project to a Joomla official Github repo ( talked with the production team ). Then everyone can download & use the new interface from Joomla official channel :)

Wish us luck. For Joomla (Y)

Thank you very much all amazing Joomlers.

Note: those who tried from my Github, please use the newadmin_development branch.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Webdongle » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Please post a link as soon as thanks
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:38 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:00 pm
Please post a link as soon as thanks
Of course. Tons of works. Can't see anything. LOL

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by simbus82 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:50 pm

Chacapamac wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Forget about my last post (to download that version seen in that video proposed by @kawshar)

I didn’t realized that it was that “Reinvent the wheel” proposition that is a good idea in itself but have nothing to do with the official administration template that users will find in their Joomla 4 installation.

I really like to keep the focus of this post on the OFFICIAL JOOMLA 4 administrative template ONLY.

Creating third party alternatives are always welcome and source of ideas but let’s focus on what we can do to help for the onboard administrative template that will be given by JOOMLA.

We got some really good alternatives already but what will decide of Joomla 4 success, it’s the genuine Joomla administration that the CMS will be given at it’s launch, nothing else...
Chacapamac can you define me what is official or what not? Can you tell me WHO decided that the actual backend template is the definite and unique template?

If you follow developers on Twitter, Glip and Github, you can see how all choiches are in the hand of not skilled people (for this role!!!)

This is a Open Source project.
If i made a fork, do a lot of modifications, and the my PR be included in master repo... my work becomes official. Easy! 8)

I hope the @kawshar work become the first offical admin template, because the actual template is coreless, old-style and probably born from some wrong UI design principles, certainly not based on modern and actual UI design. IMHO.

I think i will never spent a minute of my life on alpha11 backend template, because I completely disagree about how it's done and managed.
Think about the not useful feature like the "color selection" that is slowing down lot of thing (performance and development time). Why not a "light" and "dark" version like all modern apps?

I will prefer to test and propose to my customers the version of @kawshar even if it were a paid version!
Because this is what we talk about: the admin template does not have to please the Joomla developers, it must please and be useful to those who use CMS every day!
In serious companies the product is developed for the end customer, not for the ego of the owner!

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:11 pm

Thanks Simbus to point this to me.
Chacapamac can you define me what is official or what not? Can you tell me WHO decided that the actual backend template is the definite and unique template?

If you follow developers on Twitter, Glip and Github, you can see how all choiches are in the hand of not skilled people (for this role!!!)

This is a Open Source project.
If i made a fork, do a lot of modifications, and the my PR be included in master repo... my work becomes official. Easy! 8)

I hope the @kawshar work become the first offical admin template, because the actual template is coreless, old-style and probably born from some wrong UI design principles, certainly not based on modern and actual UI design. IMHO.
We are talking about many things here and I’m a bit confused ????
1— We have the Alpha versions of Joomla that, in my mind, represent the “Official” direction of Joomla, No?
2— For sure, anybody is allowed and should present alternatives and I support kawshar effort, but I was and still not sure if Joomla deciders do?
— Somebody somewhere will take the decision of what administration template will be implemented in the first public iteration of Joomla 4 and so far this is not what kawshar present that I see in Joomla Alpha.

Note to kawshar or anybody that know where we can download and test his template ?

Important Note about that “New, Modern, Clean Look everybody talk about :
Design of interface are not and should never be part of any, “modern” “new” trend of design or whatever somebody else is doing.

The design of software interface should be only base on the efficiency to present a clear simple tool & dashboard to users to accomplish tasks of various degree of complexity that a particular software need to do.

At this point, anything can be apply, or not, color scheme, boxes, typography, shadows, images backgrounds, whatever...
If any of these help the users to accomplish their tasks in a clear, agreeable & uniform interface, it should be used (or not)

It’s simple — An interface should transcend any rules, technology or the last visual fashion to do it’s job.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:05 pm

Hi Joomlers, I hope you guys are having a great time. Well, as some of you already know that we have been working on a Joomla 4 redesign concept from the last few months and last week I promised to release an unofficial public pre-beta working Joomla 4 this week.

So, today I am really thrilled to present to you the future of Joomla.

Please download the installable version from here https://github.com/kawshar/backend-temp ... .0-alpha12

Please download and install and check the interface and some major and minor UX improvements.

And, we know there are many bugs still available and we will start working on them as soon as the code hosted to the Joomla official Github repo. I hope it will be available there next week.

So, please enjoy the future of Joomla and let us know your feedback. I believe you will love it. You will find too many tiny little details in this whole project. I will write a list of changes in the coming weeks.

Thank you very much for your support everyone.

For Joomla (Y)

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by swain » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:34 pm

i support you @Chacapamac

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:14 pm

@kawshar

I have issues with it being called the same as the official release. I also have issues with it being a full package and not an installable Template. If you wish to develop an alternative Admin Template please could you make an installable Template package. That way the alternative Admin Template can be installed into the official nightly build. Or is it not possible to install into the nightly build?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:43 am

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:14 pm
@kawshar

I have issues with it being called the same as the official release. I also have issues with it being a full package and not an installable Template. If you wish to develop an alternative Admin Template please could you make an installable Template package. That way the alternative Admin Template can be installed into the official nightly build. Or is it not possible to install into the nightly build?
We make all layouts compatible with this design. And for that, we had to modify the layout files. And one more thing, this is not an alternative template. This is our concept for Joomla. If we tried to make an alternative template, we would do that and start selling.

However, please download the package and test it. You will feel the power as soon as you run the installer :)

Thanks

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Webdongle » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:13 am

If it is not an alternative Admin Template then what is the purpose of producing it and why post it on here? Is it free advertising for your company? It is certainly no use to me as a user.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by gws » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:21 am

I like webdongle am a little confused, I thought you were producing an installable template not a quick start joomla package? I don't see the value of this.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:56 am

Webdongle wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:13 am
If it is not an alternative Admin Template then what is the purpose of producing it and why post it on here? Is it free advertising for your company? It is certainly no use to me as a user.
Hey, the project will be uploaded here in the official repo https://github.com/joomla-projects/j4adminui

And, later it will be merged with the Joomla 4 core.


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