Deprecated tags in documents

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MarkRS
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Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Wed May 25, 2022 10:24 am

I'm editing a document page and I notice it is tagged with a "pages using deprecated source tags" tag.

I'd love to remove deprecated tags, but how do I find which tags it's talking about?

"Amusingly", I notice that the "Documentation Best Practices" page is also tagged with this tag.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by cmbay » Wed May 25, 2022 2:57 pm

I note that the Category block, pages using deprecated source tags appears at the bottom of numerous pages but with a red background. The mouseover reads, in part, page does not exist.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Wed May 25, 2022 5:54 pm

Yes.

However, clicking the tag takes me to an actual page, with a big list of documents, and a message saying there's no page. I'd guess the page is generated rather than having any content. It also says I can't create it.

Is this a document website bug?
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by toivo » Wed May 25, 2022 10:12 pm

MarkRS wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 5:54 pm
Is this a document website bug?
URLs of the pages with the issue?

Please report issues with examples to https://github.com/joomla/joomla-websit ... ur%20issue
Toivo Talikka, Global Moderator

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Thu May 26, 2022 11:14 am

Just about every page I've looked at :-) Ah, no, following the tag on the page I'm working on (https://docs.joomla.org/J4.x:Adding_an_ ... _Component) it says there are only 200 pages like that. It gives the list.

Thanks, I've filed a report on the page you've referenced.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by ceford » Fri May 27, 2022 7:17 pm

MarkRS wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 11:14 am
The page I'm working on (https://docs.joomla.org/J4.x:Adding_an_ ... _Component)
Side issue: I added a link to that tutorial from the Joomla 4 Tutorials page. Premature?

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Fri May 27, 2022 8:47 pm

It's probably not finished, but it's fairly useful as it stands I hope, so no, not premature, imnvho :)
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by dziller » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:01 pm

The problem with the red category link at the bottom of many pages is affecting currently 6,317 pages.
According to my research, it is probably related to the MediaWiki extension "Syntax Highlighting". This extension is obsolete and has been replaced by "SyntaxHighlight".
As far as I can see, this requires a syntax modification in the source code of the JDoc pages.

However, the error does not change the information given on the affected pages. Only the coloured representation of code examples is not the best.

It would be easy to remove the red warning marking by creating the missing category page. But that doesn't solve the real problem, it just makes the warning less visible.

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by cmbay » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:13 pm

MarkRS (the original poster) has kindly opened an issue at the Joomla GitHub repository.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by cmbay » Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:48 pm

dziller wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:01 pm
According to my research, it is probably related to the MediaWiki extension "Syntax Highlighting". This extension is obsolete and has been replaced by "SyntaxHighlight".
It is the source tag that is deprecated. There are batch processes that will replace source with syntaxhighlight in the Joomla Documentation.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:53 pm

It's only three months since I logged the error, so nothing's happened yet :-|

Is there a docs team? I messaged them offering to join. It took a month to get a reply saying "that'd be great, we've got plans", and that's a couple of months ago now with no word since.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by cmbay » Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:31 pm

MarkRS wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:53 pm
Is there a docs team?
There are two persons listed at the Moderators link above: Hutchy68 (last here in 2017) and sandra97 (last here in 2020).

If you try to track down members through the Documentation Working Group on the Joomla! Volunteers Portal, you'll find that the link is dead with a 404 error.
Charles

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by ceford » Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:05 pm

There is a JDocs Working Group on RingCentral. It lists 49 Members and 6 Guests, including me. I have asked there if anyone would care to make a statement here. I too have been frustrated by asking for problems to be attended to. No replies, but occasionally a problem is fixed after much delay.

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:53 pm

I got this reply from someone called Mike Bradner
thanks for your interest to help with developer documentation. You're reaching us in the right time as we want to reorganize the documentation.
I think we can need every help for this.
In the beginning of this year we prepared for testing a new area for the programmer documentation here:
https://github.com/joomla-projects/deve ... umentation
It is more related to GitHub what is easier for developers.
I would be happy if you want to join and let's stay in contact for the further steps.
We need also help to reorganize the "normal" Documentation ;-)


Mike Brandner
Teamleader Joomla! Documentation
That was the first of July. I immediately replied asking "what's the next step?" I'm still waiting to find out. I've not been holding my breath.

The github area is effectively empty as far as I can see and has been archived, making it read only.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MiBra » Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:04 pm

Unfortunately, none of the team is following the happenings in the forum. That is why there has been no reaction.
First of all, the question of if there is still a team: Yes! https://volunteers.joomla.org/teams/documentation-team
We work a lot, but unfortunately there are too few of us at the moment to do everything in our spare time.
To MarkRS' question: I don't know where you expect an answer. Apparently you don't read the publications on our volunteer pages. But the forum is not the best source of information.
On the question of what the next steps are, the best explanation can be found in the magazine article that has just been published:
https://magazine.joomla.org/all-issues/ ... developers
After the first attempts, we finally switched to Docusaurus to build a completely new documentation for developers. Everybody can contribute by submitting PR's to GitHub.

Regards Mike

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by sozzled » Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:23 pm

MiBra wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:04 pm
Unfortunately, none of the team is following the happenings in the forum.
This is symptomatic of J! teams everywhere. Once upon a time the forum was the central meeting place for everyone and then various teams went their own way. Some teams use Google docs, others use Ring Central, there's GitHub of course ...

... but even then, over time, teams adopt one communication channel and then abandon it in preference for something different—newer, brighter, shinier ...

I don't have problems—well, not too many problems anyway—using mediaWiki and "talk" pages. I'm just an occasional contributor to JDOCs. I'm not bothered by whether JDOCS will remain a mediaWiki repository or whether it moves to Docusaurus—the very name fills me with fear of a future extinction event that erases J! documentation from the face of the planet—or remains as we see it today. I suppose it would be nice if ordinary folk can easily add content whether it involves the use of wiki short-codes/tags, markdown, or some other mechanism. The important issue is not how the documentation is written, it's about encouraging participation within the broader J! community to contribute to writing the documentation.

Given that J! teams have by-and-large disassociated themselves from the broader J! community by discussing things within their own insular communication hubs, I think it behooves people to "follow the happenings on the forum" ... a little more than they are at the moment.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:05 am

Hi Mike,

Great to see you here.
MiBra wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:04 pm
To MarkRS' question: I don't know where you expect an answer.
Where I expect(ed) an answer was in email as a response to my email direct to you, after your email direct to me.

I've tried going through the volunteer portal. It says to contact the team I need to login. When I give it my login details it claims I cancelled the login, which is not the case.

It's no wonder there are too few of you when you don't engage with the community and it's really hard for the community to engage with you.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by gws » Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:59 am

It's no wonder there are too few of you when you don't engage with the community and it's really hard for the community to engage with you.
+1

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by sozzled » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:33 pm

+1 @MarkRS.

There are some "good" reasons why J! teams have abandoned this forum in favour of using their own communication hubs to discuss things. One of those, I suppose, is to keep the general community of J! users at arms length from their deliberations; I can understand that. The general community is largely ill-equipped (in a technical sense) to participate in discussions about the future design objectives that are being considered. Having said that, though, by isolating themselves from the general community (i.e. people who use The Joomla Forum™ as their main interaction with the project) J! teams could be characterised as "elitist". I wouldn't characterise J! teams this way but I know, from my conversations with (and messages posted on this forum from) "ordinary" users, people do feel this way.

It is unfortunate that each J! team has its own separate modus operandi and that team members, by and large, eschew the forum. This gives rise to the ongoing complaints about how easy it is to join those teams. This question was raised in a magazine article by the current VP OSM: https://magazine.joomla.org/all-issues/ ... la-galgano

The Joomla Community Magazine is replete with suggestions and requests for people to become active participants in the J! project and the following is just a really short list of recent articles on that subject:
... and then there's the article giving an overview about Docusaurus.

I won't go on about the decline in interest in becoming/remaining members of J! teams. I think it's disappointing that it's not easy to join a team (at least from my personal experience); teams are looking for "suitably qualified" candidates for membership. Sure, I know one or two things—enough to keep me out of trouble—and I may not be considered worthy of being a member in one or other J! team; there are some teams whose work does not particularly interest me but that's not really the point, is it?

I'm just an average user of J! (despite the investment of time and money that I've contributed as a way of saying thank you). Like the many ordinary "average" user, I rely on The Joomla Forum™ as my primary information source about the project. Evidently that's not the case for J! teams who use other sources for their information. 8)
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by MarkRS » Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:07 am

Having been a professional software developer for nearly forty years I'm fairly sure I'm more than qualified for any technical team I'd care to join, and having seen your (@sozzled) contributions over the years I'm pretty sure you are too, however it's still hard to join!

My enquiry about joining the team was because whilst I can write well, and code fairly well, I don't understand some of the code well enough to improve the (woeful) lack of documentation of J4 code, so I was asking to get "on the inside" to have access to those who do understand it well enough to help. It's not something that can be fixed by "just starting writing", which seems to be the main recommendation on the documentation team's publicly visible pages.

Again, no access means no volunteering. >:(
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by ceford » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:48 pm

Coming back to topic: it looks like the Deprecated warning arises because <source> tags have been replaced by <syntaxhighlight> tags in the later edition of Mediwiki we have installed. They can be changed globally by someone with permission, skill and daring. I have tried it with a single page and it still leaves the page in the category Pages with syntax highlighting errors. That may be because the programming language packs have not been installed. Certainly, highlighting does not appear to work. There may be good reason for that. But it would be best not to have contributors chasing bugs they can't fix.

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by cmbay » Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:18 pm

ceford wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:48 pm
I have tried it with a single page and it still leaves the page in the category Pages with syntax highlighting errors. That may be because the programming language packs have not been installed.
Apparently that error is triggered by problems with the lang= attributes of the <syntaxhighlight> tags.

At first, I thought it was case-sensitivity so I modified an article with only <syntaxhighlight lang="xml"> tags to <syntaxhighlight lang="XML">. That did not remove the error tag.

It appears that XML language markup, for one, is not supported in our configuration of MediaWiki. I have not been able to find a listing of syntaxhighlight languages supported here in the Joomla Docs as currently configured.
Charles

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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by sozzled » Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:18 pm

There are a couple of issues here that have been brought together but that complicate matters:

1) The unresolved matter reported at GitHub that concerns these "deprecated tags". According to @cmbay's last post in this discussion, this has not be fixed or it's not "fixable" at this time:
cmbay wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:18 pm
It appears that XML language markup, for one, is not supported in our configuration of MediaWiki. I have not been able to find a listing of syntaxhighlight languages supported here in the Joomla Docs as currently configured.
2) The other matters concerning (a) the general community's involvement with the J! Documentation Team and (b) the team's involvement with the general community.

I asked the forum moderators to separate these two issues (i.e. move posts 11 through 20 to their own discussion topic with the suggested subject "Becoming a member of the J! Documentation Team") but the moderators declined my suggestion.

It may help if these two issues were dealt with separated. I feel that there's merit in discussing the second of these two within its own forum topic and we could all learn something from it. 8)

I can't comment on the first of the issues identified here except to say that it's not resolved.
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Re: Deprecated tags in documents

Post by cmbay » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:45 pm

ceford wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:48 pm
...it still leaves the page in the category Pages with syntax highlighting errors. That may be because the programming language packs have not been installed.
I have conducted some tests of the syntaxhighlight lang attribute as currently configured here in Joomla Docs. Six languages were individually tested: xml, php, bash, html4strict, javascript and ini. All languages tested are supported by the MediaWiki extension.

All tests were of the form:

Code: Select all

<syntaxhighlight lang="languagename">
Some test text
</syntaxhighlight>
All languages tested resulted in the article being immediately added to the Pages with syntax highlighting errors category.
Charles


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